Modern Fairytales and Excessive Tresses: Corinna Luyken Talks The Arguers

The cover of a picture book is an artform in and of itself. It must entice and intrigue not just the people with the pocket money, but also the small fry who are, after all, its intended audience. Add in the fact that, in this day and age, a cover must also be capable of being interesting in JPG form, tiny and tight on a person’s cell phone, and you have yourself a bit of a conundrum. I mean, what makes a good one anymore?

Easy. This does:

Helluva cover, amiright? That’s how you do it, people.

Here’s a fun fact. Did you know that I’ve never interviewed creator Corinna Luyken on this site before? Considering the plethora of her creations, it seems downright odd to say that. After all, she’s been responsible over the years for such titles as THE BOOK OF MISTAKES, MY HEART, ABC AND YOU AND ME, THE TREE IN ME, IN THE DARK, PATCHWORK, ADRIAN SIMCOX, SOMETHING GOOD, and NOTHING IN COMMON. Whew! And yet I’ve never chatted with her?

That ends now.

The Arguers by Corinna Luyken (out now!) is a title that manages to be a contemporary fairy tale for 21st century kids, without abandoning what it is that makes fairy tales successful. Or, as its publisher describes it:

The first argument was over a brush and a comb, and which would be better for taking a tangle out of the king’s beard. Next came the argument over letters, and then over spoons . . . and soon they argued all the time, and no one could remember when the arguing had started or over what or by whom. They only knew that they had always argued, and that they did it well. Very, very well.

And so it was that the king and queen decided to hold a contest to choose the very best arguer in the land. But what will happen when everyone is so busy arguing that they can’t even hear the queen announce the start of the contest?

Let’s chat!

---

Betsy Bird: Corinna! Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to answer my questions! 

THE ARGUERS is one of those books that feels part-fable, part reality-in-which-we-all-currently-live. Dipping into the sheer timeliness of the tale, could you tell us a little bit about its origins? Where did this book first come from?

Corinna Luyken: Timely as it may seem, this book has been ten years in the making.  The first half changed very little from early drafts.  But the end of the book shifted around a lot.  In fact, when my editor acquired the book the ending was not fully sorted.  (I talk more in depth about that process on my most recent Substack post.) 

Basically, the manuscript  left the reader in the midst of a never ending argument.  Early on, my team wondered if there might be another way to end the story… perhaps with a glimmer of hope? I liked the original (cautionary) ending.  But eventually I realized they were probably right.  

However, every “hopeful” ending felt forced and untrue.  So I struggled.  For years. In and out of different political and social moments in our country. The story always felt timely, but as the years passed it became more and more so.  This relation to the “reality-in-which-we-all-currently-live” is part of why the story interested me.  But the exploration of arguing felt relevant and timely on a more personal, micro level as well.  As a mother, as a daughter, as an artist, and as a human in the world.  THE ARGUERS began, like many of my books, with a few lines of text.  From there I took a few of my favorite scenes and created drawings.  These initial drawings (of people arguing with flowers, stones, and the king’s beard) made me laugh out loud while I was drawing them.  That doesn’t happen very often and when it does, I pay attention.  

So while the book is, in some ways, about grappling with the repetitive, cyclical nature of arguing— the inevitability of it; it is also about the absurdity of it all.  And it’s a reminder not to take myself or my opinions too seriously.  

BB: The last two picture books that you illustrated are IN THE DARK (written by Kate Hoefler and out in 2023) and this book, THE ARGUERS (out in 2025). Unlike some of your earlier titles, like ADRIAN SIMCOX DOES NOT HAVE A HORSE (by Marcy Campbell), these titles are distinctly fantastical with folktale feels. When you agreed to Kate’s project and then wrote and illustrated your own book, were you conscious of this inclination towards fables? And are you at all a particular fan of the folktale/fairytale style of storytelling?

Corinna: Yes—I love fairytales and folk tales.  I appreciate how older fairytales allowed for a darkness, a strangeness and a complexity to life that a lot of the current children’s market avoids.  I also appreciate that fairy tales can address complex issues (that “reality-in-which-we-all-currently-live”) in an indirect fashion.  The story must always come first.  But beneath the primary story there’s room for other layers of meaning. You can be talking about an imaginary time and place, while simultaneously addressing real world issues.  

I appreciated that about IN THE DARK, and it was a huge part of why I wanted to illustrate that book.  (Also, everything in that book— kites, forests, birds, possible witches, black cats—are things I love to draw). 

With THE ARGUERS, beneath the surface disagreements about beards and noodles and thrones, there is another layer— a much-ness that permeates everything. This excess leads to the first argument.  With most of my books there are layers, like this, to the story.  But it’s not necessary to understand or even notice them to enjoy the books.  

BB: I would say the book has a distinct aesthetic. My 14-year-old daughter would correct me and say it has a “vibe”. Whatever you call it, I’m enamored of the style of the outfits in this book. They’re purposeful but difficult to define (Edwardian Boho, pershaps?). In the midst of all the trappings of a fairy tale, how does one go about figuring out “the look” of a picture book’s characters when you are both the author and the illustrator? 

Corinna: This reminds me of a recent disagreement in my house.  And since we are talking about arguing, can I digress?  My fifteen-year-old and I have argued for over a year about the use of the word “aesthetic”.  She and her friends will say something “is aesthetic.”  Meaning, attractive.  But I am of the generation that says something has an aesthetic (a particular vibe that should then be named.  As in, “Does this book have a slightly Edwardian aesthetic?)  I can be stubborn about language, and so for the better part of a year I tried to change the way she used this word. But recently, I have given up.  She has won. Because I hear the world around me using “aesthetic” in the new way as frequently as the old.  It’s interesting, as a book maker and as a parent— to watch a new generation shift the meaning of a word.  It’s a reminder that language is alive and the generations that follow us will do with it as they see fit. And well, it’s hard to argue with that!

But back to your question— this book does have a vibe. Slightly Edwardian maybe, or Regency era-ish.  But  it’s more intuitive than anything, and that’s probably why it’s hard to define.  Some of the costuming has similarities to THE BOOK OF MISTAKES because there are things I love to paint (stripes! lace!) so whenever I can, I put them in books. I’m sure there is also a Lisbeth Zwerger influence to my fairy/folk tale costuming, because she was one of my earliest influences (spare backgrounds! ballooning skirts! more stripes!)

With books that I both write and illustrate, I always let the art inform the words. And vice versa.  It’s a process of discovery— which is one of my favorite things about being both author and illustrator.  While going back and forth like this, I realized that every absurd scenario I could imagine had a real world situation I could draw where the argument wouldn’t seem so ridiculous. And even the most absurd-seeming arguments often had excess and overwhelm at the root of the quarrel.  Simultaneously, I realized that fashion (hair, beards, bows & hats) could be a visible expression of excess. 

In that very first argument, the workers argue about brushes and combs because they are faced with the nearly impossible task of de-tangling the King’s beard.  During the ten year process of making this book I also spent a lot of time thinking about how arguments can be deferred frustrations of one kind or another.  Steam in a high pressure situation that leaks out sideways.  Ultimately, the more I realized that there was this connection between the arguments and excess, the more I realized that the hair styles and outfits needed to add to that feeling of too-much-ness in this world.

BB: Much along the same lines, can you talk a bit about the role that hair plays in this story? Characters’ hair in this tale is beyond luxurious. It’s omnipresent. Representative. Oppressive even. How did you settle on making the hair what it became in this book? 

Corinna: That first argument (over the King’s beard) was present in the first draft of this story.  So I’ve always know that the hair in this book would be extravagant.  Excessive.  As you say, “oppressive even”. 

This excess leads to entanglement of a very high degree.  But for me, the hair is also personal.  For most of my daughter’s early years she had very long hair.  And she was not a fan of having me brush it, or of brushing it herself.  We do a lot of camping and swimming in the ocean and her hair would end up so tangled.  Every time I brushed her hair, we would argue… and when it got really bad I would threaten to cut it off if she wouldn’t let me brush it.  Then I would feel terrible. This went on and on. 

So here was this person that I loved with all my heart—and yet we had this recurring argument, that seemed like it would never end. Of course that particular argument did actually end, once she was old enough to brush her own hair.  But then that arguing energy was transferred to the next thing.  Now we argue about laundry. And aesthetics. Arguing with the people we love, those who are closest to us, is inevitable.  Necessary, even.

BB: I just felt what you said SO MUCH. My own daughter was exactly the same. Hated the time it took to brush the hair but didn’t want it cut. Maybe this one’s just for me, but I love the choice of illustration used for the cover of this book. Was making that image the book jacket your idea or someone else’s? And if it was someone else’s, how did they pitch the idea to you? 

Corinna: That has always been one of my favorite images from the book (arguing with stones is the other).  But for a long time I thought we would have a “getting ready for the contest” moment on the cover.  Something with an adult teaching the children to argue better and faster and more often…

It might have been my art director who suggested that I consider a different image for the cover.  I’m not sure.  But once I started thinking about using a different image, the arguing-with-flowers moment was my first choice.  And once we tried it on the cover, my art director (Lily Malcom), editor (Lauri Hornik) and I all agreed— it was perfect.

BB: Finally, what else do you have coming out these days? What’s next for you?

Corinna: I just shipped final art off to the printer for my next author/illustrator book. HELLO, OCEAN! will be in stores spring 2026 and is a celebration of the ocean (fog, wind, pelicans, razor clams and dune grass… with a kelp/rope/float garbage tangle added to the mix.)   Now I’m working on sketches for a book written by Keith Negley.  Keith is an author/illustrator whose work I admire a great deal, and this will be his first book solely as author.   After that I’m teaming up with Lauren Wolk for her first picture book.  Like her novels, the writing is exquisite.  And I have a few of my own stories (some fairy tale-ish) that I am still in the tinkering stages with.  So— lots to look forward to on the picture book front!

BB: Lauren Wolk!!! That’s incredible. Well, I appreciate you talking with me today.

Corinna: Thank you for having me Betsy, you have such wonderful questions.  It’s been a delight!

---

Thanks upon thanks to Corinna for taking the time to talk to me today! Thanks too to Elyse Marshall and the team at Penguin Random House for helping out with this interview. The Arguers is, as I mentioned, out now so go and get yourself a copy and stat!

Filed under: Interviews