A Good Story Well Told: The Story Craft Podcast You Need In Your Life Right Now

There’s a new podcast in town.

Though the literary podcasts I listen to tend to focus primarily on children’s literature in some fashion (The Sartorial Librarians, Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest, The Yarn, etc.), I’ve always had a soft spot for podcasts that look at the larger craft of writing itself. One of my favorites was between an author and his editor called Marlon and Jake Read Dead People. That show, however, hasn’t posted a new episode in two years. Now that Marlon and Jake-sized hole in my heart finally has a podcast to fill it, and it’s created by two fellows I happen to know rather well.

The name Jonathan Auxier may well be familiar to you thanks to his myriad works. Not too long ago I featured him on this site talking with his editor about his latest book The Vanished Kingdom. But, of course, Jonathan is a smart cookie when it comes to the process of writing. He is joined in the new podcast A Good Story Well Told by none other than one Matt Bird. Matt is the creator of two books on writing (The Secrets of Story and The Secrets of Character) and, until recently, he co-hosted the Secrets of Story podcast alongside author James Kennedy (he of the 90-Second Newbery Film Festival fame). Oh. And he’s also married to me. So there’s that as well.

Today, I get to talk to Matt and Jonathan about their new endeavor:

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Betsy Bird: Hey, you two! Congrats on your collaboration! So let’s get the origin story of A Good Story Well Told. First and foremost, how do you know each other? And what made you think you’d do well in a podcast together?

Matt Bird: My former podcast was “The Secrets of Story Podcast” with James Kennedy and Jonathan was our most frequent guest, so I already knew he was great on the airwaves.  We’ve had to craft a slightly different dynamic as co-hosts, but I think it’s going well!

Jonathan Auxier: We actually have a history that goes way back – we met years before either of us were published writers. If you listen to our first episode of the podcast, you can hear all about it!

BB: That’s a good point. The first episode of A Good Story Well Told really does cover a lot of about your individual backgrounds. Now on your show you two decide to read the books everyone loves but that you’ve never read yourselves. This unique concept of discussing the craft of writing through classic or commonly read books in the canon that you’ve previously avoided is an idea I really haven’t seen done on a podcast before. How did you settle on this specific focus for your show?

Matt: Jonathan brought a ton of ideas to the table for what we could do on specific seasons of the show.  We quickly realized that this was a unique way to discuss books and movies that we hadn’t seen done before, and we would enjoy shaming each other.  

Jonathan: In our house, my wife and I have a “shame shelf” filled with famous books that we feel bad about not having read before. It seemed like it could be a fun way to frame a podcast about stories and storytelling. Almost every writer I’ve mentioned this idea to has asked to be a guest … so there’s a chance we do another season of more “Shame Shelf” classics in the future. 

BB: And what, to your mind, is the benefit of considering the choices of authors of books that you’ve never read but that are considered by many to be “classics”?

Jonathan: There’s something magical when a reader encounters a truly great story for the first time. Who hasn’t wished they could get selective amnesia and re-read their favorite book for the first time again? It’s also safer to discuss (and criticize) works that are already celebrated … there’s less of a sense of punching down. 

BB: Smart. So you’ve hinted at books you’ll be covering in the future. What books would you not cover or would prefer to avoid for whatever reason?

Jonathan: We’re still trying to figure out our audience and tone. Ideally, we want to have high-level craft conversations that you can still listen to with your kid in the room … but that makes certain Shame Shelf candidates like Schindler’s List and Kill Bill a little harder to navigate! 

Matt: There’s a certain novel I won’t name that Jonathan was going to read, but I decided to reread it first and said, “Whoa, this has not aged well in the twenty years since I last read it.  I decided not to subject Jonathan to it.  

BB: Oh yeah. I know what book you mean. Good call. So I’m intrigued by the concept of having guests on. You speak of the “Shame Shelf” of books that authors have never read and fully intend to. What’s your dream roster of guests that you’d like to have on the show?

Matt: We won’t tell you that because then we’ll have authors on the show who lecture us for not listing them as a dream guest!  Every author we talk to says they have things they’d love to finally be shamed into reading or seeing, so hopefully we’ll get some good ones lined up.  

Jonathan: Authors, consider this an open call: if you want to be on the show, let us know! Pitch me a Shame Shelf book or movie you’d like to read and discuss with us! 

BB: Okay, this one is for Jonathan and it’s entirely selfish. I heard on the first episode that your wife is an expert in international children’s literature (or at least that’s how it sounded). Tell me more! I’m half thinking I should start a podcast with HER!

Jonathan: You are not the first person to want to do a podcast with her! She’s a delight! She also has zero interest in existing in the public sphere … much to my occasional disappointment. To answer your question: my wife Mary has a PhD in “transatlantic children’s literature” – her dissertation looked at the ways early children’s texts written by American and English authors discussed one another … and what that revealed about evolving ideas around childhood itself. She no longer teaches, but it’s still very much a part of how she views and processes the world. And it means we have a lot of obscure, old children’s books in our library! 

BB: That is so cool. Finally, do you envision this as a relatively short run or do you have hopes for multiple seasons in the future?

Jonathan: The plan is to run forever(!). To keep things fresh, we will be organizing every dozen or so episodes into a “season” with a different focus.

Matt: I still have another podcast Marvel Reread Club, where my brother and I read our way through the history of Marvel Comics, so the idea of a contained season of biweekly episodes was appealing to me, but if things go well, I’d love to do a second season sooner rather than later.  Our sponsor is Jonathan’s publisher Abrams books, and they’ve only signed on for the one season so far, but hopefully we could renew that relationship or find something equally good.  

Jonathan: You hear that, publishers? We’re currently accepting sponsorship offers for season two! 

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Many thanks to Jonathan and Matt for answering my questions about their podcast today. You can download A Good Story Well Told wherever you happen to get your podcasts. And trust me, it’s delightful. Particularly when they start talking about The Giver (and I don’t mean Chapell Roan’s latest song).

Filed under: Interviews