The History We Cannot Repeat: A Conversation with Livia Blackburne About Dreams to Ashes

There’s no denying that children’s nonfiction has become a force to reckon with in the last 20 years. From what was once rote recountings of the same five historical moments over and over again to today’s innovative takes on little heralded or considered topics, informational titles for kids are incredible. 2025 is no exception to this. Already this year I’ve read books about imprinting, potato scientists, all female anti-poaching teams, moons around Jupiter that could contain life, lice, Rube Goldberg devices, and more. I’ve also encountered historical moments that I never would have found anywhere else. Moments like the 1871 Los Angeles Chinatown Massacre.

Dreams to Ashes by Livia Blackburne, and illustrated by Nicole Xu (out as of yesterday), tells the story of the anti-Chinese rhetoric and attitudes that in 1871 left eighteen men dead. Or, as the publisher describes it:

“In the mid-1800s, a wave of Chinese immigrants traveled to the West Coast of the United States. They were following rumors of Gold Mountain, a land rich with treasure for all who came. When gold proved elusive, they began to seek their fortunes in other ways—as doctors and launderers, as cooks and musicians.

A number of Chinese immigrants settled in Los Angeles, California. It was a rough, occasionally lawless city, and newspapers routinely published anti-Chinese articles, fueling sparks of hatred. On the night of October 24, 1871, the city exploded in violence. In the ensuing massacre, eighteen Chinese men were killed, their dreams turned to ashes.

New York Times bestselling author Livia Blackburne and illustrator Nicole Xu illuminate a tragic episode in our nation’s past in the hope that future generations can move toward a brighter tomorrow.”

Today we speak with author Livia Blackburne to get the story behind the story that too few of us know:

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Betsy Bird: Livia, thank you so much for speaking with me today. I don’t know that there are a great many adults who know what happened on October 24, 1871. When we think of historical massacres, others may come to mind first. How did you personally learn about the event and what drew you to writing a children’s book about it, specifically?

Livia Blackburne: I admit was not very knowledgeable about the experiences of early Chinese Americans until recently. During the Covid lockdowns, I heard an NPR special about the massacre, and I was shocked that I, a Chinese person in Los Angeles, had never heard about it. At the time, anti-Asian violence was heavy on my mind, and I saw a parallels between what was happening in the late 19^th century and what happened with Covid.

I realize that most people don’t think “children’s book” when they hear about massacres, but I had read Unspeakable a while back and had been struck by how effective a picture book format was for introducing major historical events. Even adults don’t always have the attention span to read something longer, and the illustrations really add to the message. Plus, picture books were a format I was familiar with and was fairly confident that I could pull off.

BB: You could have gone in any number of directions when writing the book. You chose to focus on a couple of the specific men killed in the massacre. How did you figure out whom to highlight?

Livia: I know I wanted to focus on specific men because I wanted them to seen as individuals rather than nameless faces. As for which ones, it was mostly a practical consideration, as I was able to find out the most about those particular men.

BB: Much along the same lines, did you have an idea for how to outline this book from the start or did it come together more during the editing process? How does the final product differ from your original take?

Livia: The idea for the fire metaphor came to me on a walk one morning. From there, the structure developed pretty intuitively. It made sense to start from the historical context and move through the actual event itself. When I submitted the book to my editor Carol, she was drawn to the manuscript but wanted to make some changes before taking it to acquisitions. The main thing she wanted to do was to add more of the immigration backstory, how and why the Chinese men came here in the first place. Carol wanted to make sure that the story focused on them as people with hopes and dreams, rather than victims, and I think that was wise direction on her part.

BB: This book is being released as both anti-Asian sentiment and anti-immigrant sentiment rage, thanks in large part to the new presidential administration. What do you hope your book may accomplish, coming out in times such as these?

Livia: This is something I’ve thought about a great deal. I had written this book during Covid-induced fear and xenophobia, but because the publication process takes so long, things had died down by the time the book was in production. As of a year ago, I’d expected this book to be launched as historically relevant but not incredibly current. But things took a one eighty rather quickly, and sadly the issues in the book are now more relevant than ever. This became especially clear to me when I watched the presidential debate, and then-candidate Trump accused Haitian immigrants of eating pets. The entire controversy was so reminiscent of the rumors and bad press about Chinese people in the years before the LA Massacre. Since then, there have been rumors that Chinese immigrants would be targeted for deportation, which is development that hits close to home.

I hope this book will illuminate the tragic consequences of xenophobia and racism. I’m really hoping that the massacre is a piece of history we learn from, and not one that we relive.

BB: Well said. And the art of this book comes to us via Nicole Xu. Were you aware of Nicole’s work prior to writing the book? How do you feel about the final product?

Livia: I didn’t! The first time I learned about Nicole‘s art was when I saw her sample as part of a set of possible artists given to me by the art director. I think there were six artists, all very talented, but Nicole‘s gorgeous soft colors and flowing lines blew me away. Nicole was my first choice, and I’m thrilled that she accepted. I couldn’t be happier with the final product.

BB: Finally, do you have plans for any other children’s books in the future? 

I do have several in the pipeline! Nainai’s Mountain, with Joey Chou illustrating, comes out in April, about a young girl who visits Taiwan and experiences the magic of the island with her grandmother as guide. Bing’s Cherries, illustrated by Julia Kuo, is a tall tale inspired by the real-life Chinese immigrant who gave his name to the popular cherry. I also have a couple more projects that are not announced yet, including one in a new category that I’m especially excited about.

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A timely book at a moment in our own history where we hope that teaching kids about the past will help them to learn and work towards a better future. Dreams to Ashes is, as I’ve said, out now so take a trip to your local library or bookstore to give it a gander.

Thanks so much to Livia for taking the time to answer my questions today and to Lindsay Matvick and the team at Lerner for helping to put this all together.

Filed under: Interviews