“… the most beautiful thing I’ve held in my hands, other than my children”. An Interview with Cozbi A. Cabrera and Leslé Honoré About Brown Girl, Brown Girl

They say the publishing world moves slow. I say it moves as fast as you need it to, depending on the circumstances.

Take a look at the description of Leslé Honoré and Cozbi A. Cabrera’s upcoming Brown Girl, Brown Girl and the words “Kamala Harris” will jump out at you immediately. Or, put another way:

This powerful and hopeful picture book—inspired by the historic election of Vice President Kamala Harris—celebrates brown and Black girls and is magnificently illustrated by a Caldecott Honor-winning artist.

Brown girl, brown girl, what did you see? 
A world that sees my skin before it sees me. 

Based on a viral poem by Blaxican poet and activist Leslé Honoré, and illustrated by Caldecott Honoree Cozbi A. Cabrera, this moving journey through the past, present, and future of brown and Black girls is a celebration of community, creativity, and joy—and offers a reminder of the history that inspires hope, and the hope that inspires activism.

One might justifiably argue that the time has never been better for this book to come out. But where precisely did it come from? I had the chance to ask some questions of its author and illustrator and they were quick to tell me its origin story:

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Betsy Bird: Thank you both for taking the time to answer my questions today! There’s a lot to talk about with this book, and I just want to dive on in. Leslé, please tell us a little about how this poem was first created, and how it has changed and grown since its original inception.

Leslé Honoré: I’m delighted to talk about all things Brown Girl! The poem was first featured in my self-published book of poetry, Fist and Fire, in 2017. The poem was written in the summer of 2016 to reflect what Black and brown identifying women and girls were experiencing: a world in which it wasn’t always safe for them to learn, achieve, find and express joy, and see reflections of themselves. In the days after the 2020 election, I learned that the Biden/Harris ticket won while driving with my daughter Sage. She suggested I pull over to write about it. I did, and the only thing that came to mind was the “Brown Girl” poem. I made some small changes to move the poem from being rooted in an expression of collective pain, to one of collective joy and hope. 

Betsy: Cozbi, how did you come to hear about this project? Did you know about the poem prior to it becoming a book or did you encounter it first as a picture book manuscript? What did you think when you first read it?

Cozbi A. Cabrera: My first encounter with Leslé’s poem was when the manuscript sent to me with an invitation to illustrate it. Somehow, I’d missed its viral movement, but I was immediately taken by its visual possibilities. I thought I could illustrate it in a dreamlike state, as I’d been a brown girl all of my life. 🙂 In other words, I could approach it from a very private, personal place. My thinking was that, through the specific, we get to an honesty, an emotional register that peers into the universal.

Betsy: Leslé, after the poem was remixed in 2020, how did it go from that state to the picture book that it is today? Were you the one who came up with the idea to turn it into a book, or did someone else present you with that thought?

Leslé: The poem went from Facebook, to a poetry book, back to Facebook and Instagram, and then super-nova viral into the world. I had not thought about it being turned into a children’s book—I never dreamed this big. Being a children’s author was my father—Louis Honoré Sr.—’s dream. He read us stories he wrote at bedtime and self-published a children’s book the year before he passed away. It was my now agent, Johnna Castillo, and my first editor, Farrin Jacobs, who both reached out to me via my Instagram inbox. They changed the trajectory of my life and my family’s lives. They increased my capacity to dream, and what an infinitely powerful gift it has been. 

Betsy: Cozbi, I’m always interested in how an artist comes to illustrate a non-narrative work on the page. When you read Brown Girl, Brown Girl for the first time with the intention of illustrating it, do the images you hope to create instantly come to you, or is it a slower, more methodical process?

Cozbi: The original images came quietly and quickly. It wasn’t until I turned in the paintings that the suggestions for revision came from the author, editors, and art department. These were the voices of collaboration, the sort of jolt that reminds an illustrator that the project in your hands does not belong  solely to you—that at times the project carries the desires, expectations, and specific wishes of all who engage in the making of a book.

Betsy: Leslé, as a children’s librarian I can’t help but make connections between the picture books that I read. You begin the book with the sentence, “Brown girl, brown girl, what did you see?” and immediately my mind goes to Eric Carle’s Brown Bear, Brown Bear, book and its opening line. Thinking along those lines, was this in your mind at all as you wrote the book? And, to that end, have you thought at all about the ways in which people could sing the lines of your book aloud in a storytime?

Leslé: I have received videos of people reciting the poem as words of affirmation and celebration. I’ve seen it expressed through ASL and translated into Spanish; strangers have quoted it to me when saying hello; I’ve had it texted to me whenever a brown girl is elected, or wins a medal, or gets a degree, or finds her freedom. I’ve seen it performed with dancers and art. I can’t wait to see the first time, and every time afterwards, that magic happens when a child listens to a book and sees a reflection of themself in the pages—and to see it happen with my book. 

Eric Carle’s classic book was not in mind when I wrote my poem, but just as Carle’s book has taught so many children about colors, I hope this book can teach us about representation, hope, and the limitless possibilities that every brown girl has and should have protected. 

Betsy: At one point in the book the text reads, “Brown girl, brown girl, what do you know? That there are strong women who want me to grow.” We see a mural of women that include everyone from Kamala Harris to Buffy St. Marie and Ketanji Brown Jackson. Did you decide together which women would be featured or did you make that decision, Cozbi?

Cozbi: I was given a preliminary list with the understanding that it would change as the author thought more deeply about who she wanted portrayed. I thought of strong educational advocates such as Mary McCloud Bethune, Ida B. Wells, and Coretta Scott King. Leslé felt strongly about including Frida Khalo, Buffy St. Marie, Malala, Oprah, our young Amanda, and Leslé’s own mother. In the end, I snuck in Ketanji as well.

Betsy: Leslé, what were your feelings when you first saw Cozbi’s art for this project? Were you familiar with her work already?

Leslé: I wasn’t familiar with Cozbi Cabrera’s art before Little, Brown introduced me to her. I received the first renderings of the book’s illustrations on my daughter’s 21st birthday, and they took my breath way. My dream was for anyone who identifies as a brown girl to see at least one version of themself when they read it—and Cozbi didn’t miss. And as if that wasn’t enough, she added my mom to my favorite page in the book, a mural of brown women who have shaped history. That page made me weep. It’s the most beautiful thing I’ve held in my hands, other than my children. 

Betsy: Cozbi, it took me more than one read before I realized that the girls on these pages are the same girls throughout the book. You have a cast of characters that remains consistent from page to page. Do you use real world models at all for your books? Or do they come entirely out of your head?

Cozbi: Some of the girls make a repeat appearance throughout the book, but not all. A number of them felt to me like actual people, replete with souls and personalities. I’m alert to so much of brown girlhood, from my personal experiences, history and musings, from my never-ending observations, from my daughter and her many friends, from my inexhaustible curiosity. Leslé also wanted a balance of girls that reflected her family and heritage, as well as girls from various backgrounds that identify as brown.

Betsy: Finally, what are you two working on next?

Leslé: Next up is enjoying this moment and everything it took to get here, especially all the love and support that has held me together. Then, a deep breath, followed by the release of My Brown Boy, a story about brown boys and the magic they can create, in 2026.

Cozbi: I’m now painting Me & Papa, while illustrating a book about Coretta Scott King written by Doreen Rappaport, a book with a library as a protagonist written by Brittany J. Thurman, and a picture book by Laila Ali. And of course there are a few more delights in the pipeline. 🙂

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For the record “Delights in the Pipeline” would be an excellent name for a Substack or band.

I’d like to offer great gobs of thanks to both Leslé and Cozbi for taking time out of their busy schedules to talk to me today. Brown Girl, Brown Girl is out everywhere November 19th (not long after election day, would you know). Be sure to reserve your copy now. Special thanks to Victoria Stapleton and the team at Little, Brown for making this interview happen.

Filed under: Interviews