This Q&A is Going Exactly As Planned: A Talk with Tao Nyeu About Her Latest Book

It’s just a whirlwind series of interviews this week, and I’m particularly happy about this last one. Folks, it occurs to me that there may be a large swath of you not yet familiar with Tao Nyeu’s latest reversible picture book Exactly As Planned (out now!). The minute I saw it, it instantly became one of my favorites of 2024. Now normally, this would be the point where I’d copy out the description of the book as created by the publisher, but I love this book SO much that I’ll give you my own original description instead.

*ahem*

Moose and Fox are about to have tea together and each wants to make something special for the other. Read one story two different ways, showing how things don’t always go according to plan. To put it plainly, Nyeu has gotten all complicated on us. This book, surprisingly enough, reminded me of David Macaulay’s Caldecott Award-winning BLACK AND WHITE in the ways in which it plays with the linear text. Ostensibly, this is two stories about the same two characters, each from the other’s p.o.v. The thing is, when you start to compare them, you notice all kinds of clues linking the two stories together. I was particularly fond of the basket’s origin’s and the fate of the crow’s sweater. Far cleverer than its seemingly simple and sweet storyline would have you believe. 

I get a lot of press releases that say things like “this author is available for interviews upon request,” but I don’t request many. This one? Instantaneous requesting, my friends. I had MANY questions:

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Betsy Bird: Tao! EXACTLY AS PLANNED is utterly delightful and it appears to be a far more complicated story than anything you’ve done before. I think I spent a long time flipping between the A story and the B story, watching all the little details that overlapped in both. What inspired this book?

Tao Nyeu: Hello! And thank you! Knitting was the main starting point of this book. I find the idea of a piece knitting getting unraveled by accident endlessly hilarious. It would never happen in real life, but it theoretically could, and thus has a Looney Tunes quality to it. Like, you’re just walking along, and then you feel a draft, and then you look down, and oops! You’re naked. Accidental nakedness doesn’t happen in this story though.

I also love that something can be unraveled and knit up again to make something different. It’s fascinating what two sticks and a really long string can do.

Then I started to think about what characters I would like to draw. I really enjoyed drawing the foxes in The Legend of Iron Purl, so I wanted to do something with a fox. And then, of course, moose antlers are perfect for holding yarn, so a moose was going to be in it too:

I had unravelling, re-knitting, a fox and a moose and I had to find a way to bring all these elements into a story. I was also intrigued by the idea of two characters crossing paths without ever knowing it and then ending up at the same place. And this little tea party scenario evolved, possibly because of my mother’s tea pot. I’ve always loved it and was happy to include it in the book. I didn’t copy it exactly, but I’ve always thought of it as a secret character.

Random info: The Fox’s typewriter is inspired by the red, wheeled typewriter from Sesame Street and her phone is my childhood kitchen phone.

BB: Aww. I loved that typewriter. So I was wracking my brain trying to come up with any other picture book that does something similar to your book, and the first thing I came up with was BLACK AND WHITE by David Macaulay. In both cases you’re playing with timelines (and I was delighted to discover that your book doesn’t cheat once). Did you have any specific influences in mind when you made this book?

Tao: Oh! I don’t know Black and White, I’ll have to check it out!

In a very, very tangential way I was thinking about the movie Rashomon. I love how a single set of events is retold from so many different perspectives and motives. For this book, it made me think about how a simple tea party can be experienced from two different perspectives. Fox and Moose are each feeling insecure about themselves while also thinking their friend is just dandy and perfect. Basically, they’re me. And I have to remind myself that, actually, nobody is thinking about me at all, and I need to chill out.

Another influence for this book (all my books, really) is Richard Scarry. He’s got this cast of characters that all have busy, busy lives in his universe. In addition to his main story, he gives you so many details about the lives the background characters are living. There is so much to look at and wonder about in his books. I never get tired of reading them. I was thinking about this as I created two distinct characters with their own stories but also interact with the same side characters, just at different times. In an homage to Richard Scarry, I put a boat hook (I just googled it to find out what it is called. Pole + hook = boat hook) leaning on the goat’s laundry tree. I was thinking, “How on earth is she getting the clothes way up there?” And an image from a Richard Scarry story popped into my mind. He has the best details.

BB:  I’ve never had an opportunity to do this before, so I’d like to take a moment and thank you deeply for the way in which your characters hold knitting needles. My #1 bugaboo is when illustrators make the ends go straight up. I also have a fondness for hoofed creatures knitting, so double bonus there. This is NOT the first time you’ve put knitting into a picture book, and I suspect it won’t be your last. Are you a knitter yourself? And, if so, how long have you been knitting?

Tao: Yes! I am a knitter. I. LOVE. KNITTING. I’ve been knitting for a little over two decades. I started in my early twenties just for fun. I liked to knit, but I didn’t do it often. After having kids, I started to knit them critters once in a while. Then, like many people, my hobbies started getting serious during the pandemic. I decided to do a year of hats. When it was someone’s birthday I offered to knit a hat of their choosing. About 20 hats later I had beefed up my knitting skills enough to try a sweater. I have reached a state where I must always be working on a sweater. Let’s ignore the fact that I live in Southern California. I don’t feel right unless I knit a bit every day and a lot on weekends. It is very calming and a nice way to end the day. I highly recommend it!

I do have a public apology to make to the knitting community. In Exactly as Planned, the moose is knitting socks and a hat with straight needles. That would never happen. It should be circular or double pointed needles. But for the sake of clarity, especially for a young audience, I went with the classic look of two straight knitting needles. I struggled with that decision and still feel a twinge of unease about it. Apologies to anyone’s knitting sensibilities I have offended and for misleading children.

BB:  I suspect that you will be forgiven. I also suspect that getting the continuity right in this book could have proven a bit difficult. How did you make sure that each element didn’t contradict any other element? Did you plan this out, map it, or just make it and correct later? What’s your process?

Tao: All of the above! I wrote several drafts and made many book dummies. First, I wrote out what would happen for each side of the story. Once I got something that made sense, I started to break both stories into an even number of pages. That’s when I had to adjust the timing and events of their journeys. I aimed to make each story stand on its own while also feeling balanced with elements in the other story. I drew maps, made side by side timelines, and had a lot of sketches to shift around on my wall. I felt like I was figuring out a jigsaw puzzle that came with a lot of wrong pieces and no instructions.

BB: Finally, what are you working on next? What can we expect from you?

Tao: I am wondering the same thing! I’ve been coming up with sparks of different ideas and it’s time to develop one into a full story. I’ve done a few books now, but I still feel like I don’t know how to begin. Only the knowledge that I’ve done it before gives me the confidence to try to do it again. I don’t have a defined process, I wish I did! Intentions at the beginning of the book’s development are hardly ever the book I end up with in my hands. I’m as curious as you are. Let’s hope it’s a fun book to look at!

BB: I’d say that’s guaranteed.

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Exactly As Planned is out on bookstores and libraries now, so no need to wait for it. Big thanks to Tao for such lovely answers (and images!) and to Jenna Smith and the folks at Penguin Young Readers for helping to put this together.

Filed under: Interviews