Using Well-Placed “Humour” As a Trojan Horse for Information: An Interview with Philip Bunting About Ants!
In the backmost corner of my brain, down the hall from the water cooler, the whiteboard, and the various cubicles producing god-knows-what-all, there is a list. It’s not a particularly noticeable list and, I suspect, you could probably walk right by it without giving it a glance. Nevertheless, it’s a list I consult with great frequency. Scrawled in crayon, right at the top, are the words “PEOPLE I WANT TO INTERVIEW”. And prominent amongst them, for a number of years, has been the name “Philip Bunting”.
Does his name ring a bell? If you’re an American it might not, and that’s a pity. I bet you’ve seen some of his books before, though. Chances are, if you’ve seen them, laughed with them, or shown them to a kid, you’ve probably an affection for them. Phil himself is Australian, but his books, with their irreverent nonfiction topics, touch on international themes. He’s one of the few author/illustrators I included twice on my 31 Days, 31 Lists for two separate titles. And now I find that he has a new book out March 19th. Called The Wonderful Wisdom of Ants, it joins a surprising number of other ant-related picture books due to come out in 2024. If you can pick only one, though, I think you know where to look.
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Today, I get to talk to Mr. Bunting for the very first time. And not simply about ants either:
Betsy Bird: Philip! Long time reader, first time interviewer. I’ve been a huge fan of yours for a number of years. Your propensity for placing eyeballs in objects and living beings that do not, for all intents and purposes, actually have eyeballs is fantastic. You bring a much needed irreverence to the world of nonfiction books for kids. Just out of my own curiosity, how did you get wrapped up in informational books in the first place?

Philip Bunting: Exactly for that reason—so many nonfiction books are a little too heavy on the reverent, the earnest, the literal. They tend to take themselves too seriously. Falling back on the local parlance here (Queensland, Australia), much of children’s nonfiction is ‘as dry as a dead dingo’s donger.’ Perhaps when I was growing up—pre-interweb 😉 —very literal nonfiction had its place, but it is a less relevant form today, in my humble opinion. Particularly when dealing with nonfiction, well-placed humour can behave like a Trojan Horse for information, allowing the ideas to get in by stealth.
BB: Just adding “dry as a dead dingo’s donger” to my list of phrases I didn’t expect to encounter today. You know, walking that balance between what is funny and what is real can be tricky. Yet I never find that I have difficulty parsing truth from fiction in your books. Is there a lot of trial and error when you’re adding humor to your books (a lot of editing down) or do you tend to nail the landing the first time you create a manuscript?
PB: No, I never nail the landing (and anyone who claims to is probably spinning a bit of a yarn)! Distillation to the point of being able to produce a presentable picture book manuscript requires rounds of editing. The same applies to both fiction and nonfiction, but my goal is always to present the information or story as simply—and in as few words—as possible. I keep a copy of Orwell’s Six Rules for Writing on my wall as a reminder to keep it simple (and refrain from trying to become Conan the Barbarian).

BB: That right there is the sound of hundreds of people running to look up Orwell’s six rules. No shade (ha ha) on other tree communication books but your GENTLE GENIUS OF TREES really is the standard bearer when it comes to books for kids that explain the whole process. You’ve followed it up with THE WONDERFUL WISDOM OF ANTS, which is fantastic, but it gets me to wondering. We’ve a million bee books for kids out there, and surprisingly few ants. What made you choose the little sugar lovers over the pollen lovers?
PB: Well, thank you, that’s very kind. Ants are indeed underrepresented and underappreciated! I had kept a few disparate notes and facts on ants, across a few equally disparate notebooks. There came a point where I’d collected enough random data to see a through-line for the book—that being the somewhat anthropomorphised ‘lessons’ we hairy humans could take from ants.
BB: Out of curiosity, what kinds of reactions do you get from kids to your books?
PB: Kids’ reactions tend to be as wonderful and unique as they are. But anything a little rude or cheeky that makes it through the final edit tends to get the most attention from the kids. I set aside a few hours each week to reply to messages and emails from children, teachers, parents, and more, and those few hours are often the best part of my working week—the feedback is incredibly humbling.

BB: You snuck a bit of a nice environmental message at the end of ANTS, I noticed. Your books are funny and informative but is there an inclination to also raise the occasional consciousness when it comes to this Earth we all live on?
PB: Most good contemporary nonfiction inherently promotes positive environmental messaging—if not explicitly, it does the job simply through positive association. We fight for what we love, and discovery—through good literature—is often the first step in that process. The message at the end of my Ants book is pretty literal, but I don’t see the application as exclusively environmental—it’s an ethos that can be applied to every decision, every moment, to help benefit the greater good. If we each endeavour to make the world a little better—with every decision, in each moment—then we help to nudge the dial in the right direction, just a little.
BB: And were there any ant facts that you weren’t able to fit into this book?
PB: Way too many! Fire Ants get a bad rap, but they exhibit some incredible behaviours. My favourite behaviour is that when they are faced with a river, or sudden flood, a colony of Fire Ants will join together to make a living raft . . . and float to safety. Look out, humans!
There were also ‘hive mind’ allegories I had to leave out, and even quantitative comparisons between the number of neurons in an ant colony vs the number of neurons in a human brain, which were really interesting.

BB: Zut! I would have loved to have learned more about that one. What kinds of books are you working on next? I know you often have a number of irons in the fire.
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PB: I’ve most recently finished a book about human reproduction—How Babies Are Made—which will be published by Scholastic here in Australia, in June (2024). I make books primarily for my own children, and the older two (age 10 and 8) were beginning to ask questions. A picture book seemed like the best way to answer. 😉
BB: Finally, this one’s just for me. I have to know. In one of your books (which shall remain nameless) I swear to God I found three Simpsons references. I could be wrong but just let me know: Were they intentional?
PB: Having grown up in the 90s—the golden era—I just love the Simpsons. It is the most wonderful anthology of comedy, silliness, and heart. I don’t think any of my references would have been intentional, but equally I don’t think I could have helped it at this point. The writing from that show has formed a significant part of my subconscious! 🙂
BB: As is right.

Big time thanks to Philip for taking the time to answer my questions today. Thanks too to Sarah Shealy of Blue Slip Media for helping to put this together. You can find The Wonderful Wisdom of Ants on bookstore and library shelves everywhere March 19th. Find it! Read it! And enjoy the fact that 2024 is clearly the year of the picture book ants.
Filed under: Best Books, Best Books of 2024, Interviews

About Betsy Bird
Betsy Bird is currently the Collection Development Manager of the Evanston Public Library system and a former Materials Specialist for New York Public Library. She has served on Newbery, written for Horn Book, and has done other lovely little things that she'd love to tell you about but that she's sure you'd find more interesting to hear of in person. Her opinions are her own and do not reflect those of EPL, SLJ, or any of the other acronyms you might be able to name. Follow her on Twitter: @fuseeight.
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