A Conversation Worth Reading: Kyle Lukoff Discusses His Work and A World Worth Saving

God blessed me by making me transsexual
for the same reason he made wheat but not bread
and fruit but not wine: because he wants humanity
to share in the act of creation.
—Julian K. Jarboe

I have a tendency to overstate when something is “the first” to me in some way. It’s not that these “firsts” are untrue. More that in the world of “firsts”, not all are created equal. There’s a great deal of difference, for example, between the first picture book I’ve seen to involve a dog racing a strawberry, and the first fantasy novel for kids to feature Jewish/trans themes and imagery on an epic scale.

We’re discussing the latter today, by the way.

I’ve known author Kyle Lukoff for a day or two. We first met at a rooftop party in Manhattan during the 4th of July, probably somewhere around 15 years ago. He was a school librarian. I was a public librarian. He was thinking about writing books for kids someday. So was I.

Now, of course, everyone knows Kyle. He’s like the band I was into before everyone else found out about him. What’s more, Kyle’s one of those guys that’s just a delight to hear speak publicly. And most recently, I heard him speak about his latest novel A World Worth Saving. Kyle’s publicist once told me that it was, “This groundbreaking, action-packed adventure weaves together elements of Jewish mythology with an unflinching examination of the impacts of transphobia, creating a story that is both powerful and deeply resonant.” And so, at the risk of repeating myself, this is something I’ve never seen in a book for young people before. This is a much needed first.

For the record, I always don’t read the longer books of the people I interview. Not because I don’t want to, but simply because there are only so many hours in the day. Kyle’s book is an exception. Though, of course, I will always read anything that he writes. What I found in this particular title was this amazing amalgamation of thoughts, themes, and ideas that could have ended up an unholy mess and, instead, work. I mean, it really really works!

Here’s the description of the plot from the publisher:

“Covid lockdown is over, but A’s world feels smaller than ever. Coming out as trans didn’t exactly go well, and most days, he barely leaves his bedroom, let alone the house. But the low point of A’s life isn’t online school, missing his bar mitzvah, or the fact that his parents monitor his phone like hawks—it’s the weekly Save Our Sons and Daughters meetings his parents all but drag him to. 

At SOSAD, A and his friends Sal and Yarrow sit by while their parents deadname them and wring their hands over a nonexistent “transgender craze.” After all, sitting in suffocating silence has to be better than getting sent away for “advanced treatment,” never to be heard from again.  

When Yarrow vanishes after a particularly confrontational meeting, A discovers that SOSAD doesn’t just feel soul-sucking…it’s run by an actual demon who feeds off the pain and misery of kids like him. And it’s not just SOSAD—the entire world is beset by demons dining on what seems like an endless buffet of pain and bigotry.

But how is one trans kid who hasn’t even chosen a name supposed to save his friend, let alone the world? And is a world that seems hellbent on rejecting him even worth saving at all?”

And did I mention that Rick Riordan is a big fan?

So yeah. I wanted to talk to Kyle about the book. Were you in my position, you would as well:

Betsy Bird: Kyle! How are you doing these days? Thanks so much for chatting with me about your three times starred (as of this writing) A WORLD WORTH SAVING. It’s been a minute since we saw a novel from you, so let’s begin at the beginning. Where on earth did this book come from?

Kyle Lukoff: Hi Betsy! I’ve been bad! Because *gestures vaguely at the world*. But I’m also fine, in many ways, and always thrilled to talk to you about anything.

Wow, my last novel came out three years ago? That’s wild, it feels like yesterday. Meanwhile, this book winked into existence in April of 2021, when my librarian friend Angie Manfredi sent me a Facebook message saying “Kyle! You should write a middle grade novel about a golem that protects trans kids.” Now don’t get me wrong, my life is full of people being like “Hey you should write this idea that I have,” and I usually politely decline. But I liked this idea. There was something there I wanted to explore. So I started thinking about it, and it only took almost four years before the rest of you could read it. 

BB: I’d say it was worth the wait. So the book begins somewhere I’ve never seen depicted in a book for kids before. I’m not giving anything away to say that it starts with our hero being forced to attend a conversion-therapy group for families with transgender youth. Dear lord, it’s realistic. What kind of research did you conduct for this book, not just in terms of that element, but the mythology too?

Kyle: For the runaway element I read a lot of first-person narratives from homeless queer youth, as well as fiction written by them, and also just years of listening to my friends who have been housing insecure talk about their lives. For the mythology element, I read a lot of books, spent a lot of time on the Internet, read some more books, and listened to a couple podcasts. But for the conversion therapy element, I simply decided to take the worst parts of support groups, the worst parts of group therapy, and the worst parts of what I imagine these people saying and doing, and turn it into my fictionalized idea of what one of these might look like. I have no idea if it’s realistic, but on some level I think I didn’t want to find out. I have read books and articles and listened to podcasts about people surviving these kinds of things (my favorite movie as a teenager was “But I’m A Cheerleader”), and probably incorporated some of what I’ve absorbed over the years, but in this case I wanted it to fit the story rather than be a transcription of what real people have actually went through. 

BB: I had a friend in high school who ADORED But I’m a Cheerleader. Now I imagine the book springing forth perfectly formed like Athena from the head of Zeus, but that’s probably not the case. There had to have been a fair number of changes from conception to final product. How much does this book resemble its earliest incarnations? Or, to be more precise, is this the book you thought you were writing at the start or has it shifted along the way?

Kyle: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.

I mean yes. I mean, this is the opposite of springing from my head fully formed, and there were so many changes that I’m hoping the early drafts in my editor’s inbox have been incinerated because I’m so embarrassed by much of what I put in there.

When I first sat down to write this book, I didn’t know what I was doing. Like, fundamentally. I knew it was going to be a fantasy/adventure where the protagonist was trans and Jewish. I knew it had something to do with this current phase of anti-trans backlash. I knew it had to be about something bigger than just one kid. But I had no idea how all those elements fit together–why Jewishness, why transness, why this particular political and historical moment. I knew, because this is the structure of such things, that the main character would go from trial to tribulation to final conflict to resolution, and while I had a vague sense where some of those might take place, I still had no idea why, or how.

When I say that this is the hardest book I’ve ever written, that’s why. I didn’t have an overarching vision for it until I really got into the writing of it. I didn’t know the ending until probably the third draft. The why of it came to me in slow, painful, almost physically mindbending revelations. I think this book made me a better reader, and a better writer, but also it’s for the audience to decide if I nailed it or didn’t live up to what I promised. So I’m also very nervous for this one to be out in the world. I think I did it, but truly have no idea.

BB: Fair. So in terms of age, we’re looking at a book that may be that rarest of beasts: the middle school novel. There’s a complexity to the writing that requires a more sophisticated read, plus you’re working in a wide range of LGBTQIA+ identities alongside Jewish mythology and lore. But every aspect of this book is, I would say, integral to the whole. You can’t pluck one element out because it reads older. When you write for kids or write for teens, are you conscious of the age of the audience while typing or is it something you discover after you’re done? And did you walk into writing this thinking it was for one age range and discover it would be for another, or did you know all along? 

Kyle: I think this is the first book I’ve written where the “target age range” shifted from what I intended it to be to what it is. Awake, Asleep is for babies because I wanted to write a book for babies, my picture books are all for a picture-book audience, and, until now, my middle-grades have all been firmly middle-grade (and the YA I’m writing on is definitely not for a younger audience).

But, if I may contradict myself, that might also not be true. It’s possible that I knew from the start that this book would somewhat uncomfortably straddle MG and YA. After all, I knew the main character was going to be 14 from the very first draft. I knew it involved some element of running away from home and surviving by one’s wits. And I also knew that, structurally, it would feel like a middle grade novel, and would also not address, say, sexuality, or drugs, or college admissions, or the concerns of older teens.

So I think maybe I always knew that this book would be a little harder to pin down or to place, and I had to pretend otherwise to get myself to write it, because I knew subconsciously that I couldn’t just make the character a few years older or younger and keep the story as is. I simply had to do the hard thing of writing a book that wasn’t going to quite fit in anywhere, and be okay with that. And now I am, because that describes the experience of SO many kids, especially those in that uncomfortable period of development between 13-15. I wouldn’t go back and change it now even if I could, but sometimes I wish I could make it easier on myself.

BB: It’s pretty fair to say that while I have seen some queer representation in fantasies for kids, it’s usually the best friend/sidekick or it’s the hero but the format is a graphic novel. And trans representation? I’m having difficulty thinking of a great number of books. You’ve had fantastical elements in your books before, but high fantasy is relatively new. Why delve into the genre now? What’s the allure for you?

Kyle: Fantasy has always been one of my favorite genres to read. I’m VERY picky about it, but even within my pickiness (I don’t like space or complex political machinations or romance) I still say “Oh I love fantasy” and feel like it’s true. I never thought I would write it, though, because it seemed too hard.

And it turns out I was correct! It was too hard. Or at least, it was so hard that I’m not sure if I want to do it again for a long time. It’s much easier for me to keep the rules of the real world straight in my head, much harder to keep both the real world and the magic system I’ve invented (and also drawn from folklore) consistent at the same time.

But, if there’s one thing that’s broadly true about my career so far, it’s that I don’t want to write the same kind of book twice. It’s starting to happen, where people will love I’m Sorry You Got Mad and Just What To Do but have no idea that I’m also the author of When Aidan Became A Brother and Call Me Max. Or that people will have no idea that my first picture book was about collective nouns, and that the second one I sold was about poetry taxonomy. So complicated fantasy just seemed like a natural next step, to keep me from getting bored.

BB: And would you call this a standalone or will we be seeing some sequels in the future?

Kyle: That depends!! On what, I’m not sure, but I do know it’s an open question. The best way to determine if there will be a sequel is if this sells tons of copies, though, because then it’ll justify a second one. I have some good ideas, so, and once I’ve recovered from the experience of writing this book I think I want to dive into them, one way or another. We’ll see.

BB: Finally, I know your output puts most creators to shame. What else do you have coming out these days?

Kyle: I don’t know from shame because we’re all doing the best with what we have, but I have so many more books in the pipeline (I’m very tired). There’s my contribution to “The Kids In Mrs. Z’s Class;” my character, Sebastian, is one of my favorite inventions. My somethingteenth picture book “The Vicious Cycle,” illustrated by Priscilla Tey, just got announced, which is great because I’ve been excited to talk about that one. “My Little Golden Book About Pride” (illustrated by Michelle Jing Chan) releases (released?) on March 4th, and my next nonfiction picture book “Are You A Friend of Dorothy” (illustrated by Levi Hastings) comes out on April 29th. And then I have…two more novels, a couple more picture books, but none of those are announced with.

Sometimes I daydream, as is normal I think, about what I’d do if I won the lottery and never had to work again. And the thought I keep circling back to is “I’d love to write a novel.” Then I mentally smack myself upside the head, because that’s literally my job. Which means that, despite everything going on in the world, I’m very lucky. I just hope I get to keep doing it.

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Perfectly said.

Many thanks to Kyle for taking the time to answer my questions today. Thanks too to Kaitlin Kneafsey and the team at Penguin Young Readers for helping to put all this together. And for those of you intrigues, I am happy to report that A World Worth Saving is on shelves right now. Go on. Grab one. See what all the fuss is about.

Filed under: Best Books, Best Books of 2025, Interviews